The Sorcerer's Apprentice®
The Original Occult Suppliers since 1975
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RE: Goetic Spirits
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posted by Draconuit
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The rule of the g. is: Bring food, or be food. Your armchair inadvertant summoning suggests
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RE: Goetic Spirits
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posted by V.I.T.R.I.O.L
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I am suprised that nobody has noticed this error of mine! Although the spirits would fit nicely into five degree quintenances and thefore would in that case fall nicely under the domains of the angels of the schemhamphorash the actual classification of these in Liber 777 are as 36 each night and day demons under the decans of the zodiac my appologies for the misinformation!
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RE: Goetic Spirits
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posted by Draconuit.
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Fulofmanflu, now then; then now! you are a very naughty old witch.
" ooh no guv, i never done it"
Such an innocent! But,... what if yor slithering was observed with amusement! Just for you, a foe,gor!
Spiral bandage, to cone on head? Just for you? A 900 yr. old demon>? Blessed be you. Now,
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RE: Goetic Spirits
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posted by fullofmanflu
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Hi V.I.T.R.I.O.L. Point taken that because 2 entities share similar ish sounding names then it does not automatically follow that they must in fact be the same entity. I am not sure that the people who's theory this is have based their assumption solely on the fact that 2 entities names sound similar though! I would like to say this is not my personal opinion about the spirits but is merely one of the theories that I read in many books. I do agree with you though when you say that a persons state of mind is a factor when evoking these beings. Also I strongly agree that the manner in which they are treated plays a significant part. A few years ago I did experiment with seals of a couple of the Spirits that I made and consecrated myself and used in much the same way as the S.A's Universal Talisman Kit but that is as far as my practical knowledge of the Goetia goes-I have not yet evoked any spirit (Angelic, Elemental or whatever) because I am very much on the early steps of my path and still learning the basic skills and techniques that are required for ANY type of working. Having said all that though, the Goetia is a fascinating document and whether it is as old as Solomon or Medieval in origin is another point of debate. Or more probably it is a document that contains information dating back to Solomon but has been 'messed' around with by medieval scholars-hence the introduction of an almost feudal heirachy system, etc. I'm not sure but it would be good to have other peoples thoughts on this document and the Spitits therein.
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RE: Goetic Spirits
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posted by V.I.T.R.I.O.L
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Personally I dislike the word demon when used to describe spiritual beings. The early Christians where apt do demonise all gods but their own. Best to see spiritual beings as powers or forces whether they are harmful or benefical depends on the state of mind of the operater and understanding of how to approach them correctly and for the right reasons. The Goetia is interesting and comes from the Lemegeton or lesser key of King Solomon The KIng. It presents 72 spirits each given rulership over each of the quintenences That is 5 degree divisions of the zodiac: see Aleister Crowley's Book 777.[INFOBURST: For more information and prices on Liber 777 and The Key of Solomon, highlight, copy and paste the following link into your browser's Location window-
http://www.sorcerers-apprentice.co.uk/booklist.htm ] A small number of the spirits Bael Amon Astaroth for instance have some phonetic resemblance to gods of the ancient world. This is all! It is however phonetic resemblance as the character of these divinites of high state gods and their images are totally different from those of the spirits and there natural provenances much much greater. I have not got to the stage yet were I would feel confident about experimenting with these beings. If I were to I would study the Shemhamphorash as this yeilds the names of 72 angels that I imagine would form part of the invokation before evoking these beings. There is a splendid little candle magic kit done by Llewellyn giving cards and sigils as well as a system of divination based on them by Pricilla Schwie and Aleister Crowley's Illustrated Goetia the latter of which I got from the SA A few years ago.
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RE: Goetia
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posted by Red Dragon.
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Hi 'Fulofmanflu', I'm glad you found my viewpoint interesting, and I thank the fates you're so sensible about this. It's a two way street, your unique viewpoint shows me another aspect of life. I was aware of some, though not all of the entities mentioned. I am now...
Hopefully, some other writers will contribute different viewpoints.
I, also will ponder.
Thankyou.
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RE: Goetia
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posted by fullofmanflu
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Hi Red Dragon, thanks for your comments-much appreciated. I would like to say that I have NO desire to attempt a Goetic operation at this stage or even to attempt ANY kind of evocation (either to the astral or physical)-these kinds of operations are for a far far more advanced student than myself! I am aware of the information regarding the Goetic spirits as being 'Fallen Angels' and that some of them do wish to return to heaven in a few thousand years but, as I am sure you are aware, there is other information that claims that many of the spirits are in fact earlier Gods/Godesses, eg BAEL is claimed to be a form of the Caananite God BAAL, ASTAROTH is claimed to be a form of the Caananite Godess ASTARTE and so on. As to these entities being 'friendly', then there is a lot of information that clearly states that a person is taking his/her life into their own hands when performing an operation....however there is equal information from people who regularly perform Goetic evocations and they talk of SOME of these spirits being quite friendly-MARBAS, VASAGOO and BAEL for example. I am pondering on this. You are obviously an advanced practitioner Red Dragon and I thank you for your time and your comments. These are the kind of remarks and comments I was hoping for. Thank you.
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Goetia
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posted by Red Dragon.
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Dear fellow Aspirant; Wow! I'm a Thelemite, our rule is to help fellow aspirants, if able. As you're not a Thelemite, I could wriggle out of it, but I've known a lot of'demons.' So let's get this straight:You can treat these phenomena as purely subjective, parts of your mind, whatever suits. I must say there are many varieties of demon, Your reference to them being 'old Gods' is probably due to the historical repetition: The conquering race/religion declares the god of the conquered to be 'the devil', e.g. The Christians portrayed the goat legged horned God of ancient Britain as 'the devil.'(as a Thelemite, I don't believe in the devil, but am aware of demons.) As You evolve, you will naturally confront many demons, they, together with your subconcious 'hang ups' must be dealt with before magick proper can begin. Thereafter, each time you attain unto a new height, meeting an Angel, or God, you will have to deal with the opposite thereof, the demon; Power cannot be destroyed, only transmuted, I leave you to ponder on that. You personal demons are like a bunch of wild animals, train them. As you look 'up' to your idea of God, so they, your demons, should consider you their 'god', and afford respect accordingly; train them, they will bear you well. A vast subject, when exploring the Empyrean (Astral realms) you will come across 'qlippothic'(hell type)entities called shells. They are the cast off lower levels of mans nature,the base, vile parts of humanity,sort of automotans, which have a small amount of spiritual consciousness left. An entirely different type of demon is the goetic demon; they are the result of 'The Fall' they have been around for a long time, and are not stupid, some hope to be reinstated in Heaven, after, say, 1200 yrs. Each controls many thousands of evil spirits.-- When a noted, much honoured Thelemite was considering evoking the goetia, He wrote to his Guru, Her reply was "For Heavans sake, NO!" probably having witnessed many more total disasters than successful workings. You are a beginner, hence my long attempt to explain the basics;hopefully others will add comments. Finally, you talk of them being freinds. As an Adept starts His/Her career, they aspire unto God, invoking Him with trembling. With progress, 'Thy will be done,' ultimately becomes, 'My will be done;' A high adept may be friends with the Gods, as He will with certain demons, but this is a high Adept we're considering. Perhaps, as a beginner, you might like to consider good/evil; demons are evil. You will meet them, in good time. I hope these vague ramblings are of some value to you, concerning a vital part of one's spiritual endeavour/health. Love and light.
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Goetic Spirits
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posted by fullofmanflu
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I would be interested to hear from people with experience of working the Goetia. I am on the very early footsteps of my path and so have no experience what so ever of Goetic Spirits (and am not likely to for a long time yet!) but my studies have led me to conclude that the old tales of demonic forces is, at best, an exageration, at least in some cases. I am inclined to believe that the spirits are the Gods and entities of other earlier cultures, once again, at least in some cases. In an earlier post on a different topic on this forum, a writer (I forget who) said that he thought of some of these spirits as his friends and this seems to be a re-curring theme in a lot of the material that I have read, ie that many (but perhaps not all??) of the Goetic Spirits are in fact very friendly. I would be interested to hear from people who have experience of the Goetia and the various Spirits therein, with perhaps some light shedding comments.
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