The Sorcerer's Apprentice®
The Original Occult Suppliers since 1975
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Baby-bathwater.
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posted by Draconuit.
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Hello Denise. Sorry. I've been told in the past that my true thinking is incomprehensible. I thought I'd improved my communication skills. Apparently not. I may have created confusion.
Sincere apologies. Seems it's my cue to leave.
Best Wishes to All.
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Golden Dawn
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posted by ONU
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I see. I knew Mathers was in 'political' strife, losing His position. I know not of the Westcott rift, obviously Fr. M. will be correct.
'History is written by the Victors.' I read Crowley's account of that time!
Yes, Israel Regardie, I understand your words. Thankyou.
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RE: The Antecedency of The Golden Dawn
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posted by Draconuit
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Tidying up.
Greetings yet again Denise. I'm tidying up here, as my superiors require me to perform some work. Fr. M. is, to my mind, correct. I was guided to a police meeting in 1980, where they numbered me after my Guru's number. 'For two things are done, and the third,' begins= 3x8. Good luck everyone.
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RE: The Antecedency of The Golden Dawn
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posted by Draconuit
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RE: Crowley: Thelemism; a clearer view.
Hello again Denise. I see, I'm not a Judge of the rights or wrongs of it, just a pawn, however, history as recorded says; Crowley had a ferocious battle with Mathers, The Golden Dawn collapsed, and crowley, with another Adept found themselves in control of a defunct order. (The rift was that Mathers claimed to have made contact with the secret chiefs, pretty unlikely, as Mathers, billiant as He was, didn't cross The Abyss. A fraudulant claim of that magnitude would inevitably have dire repercussions, the order fragmented before the final showdown.) So the first order is called G.D. as a convenience, not as the original, now reinstated Golden Dawn system. As theyre a 5-10 min drive behind me, I'm well aware of their H.Q. The O.T.O. will have to address this issue. Well pointed out. Thankyou again Denise, Best Wishes.
[Infoburst: Hi Draconuit. According to Marabas the split in the G.D. had nothing to do with Crowley but was due to a political rift between Westcott and Mathers during which Crowley, in his inimitable style, sensed an opportunity and tried to precipitate a schism which was in the offing anyway. Outlying G.D. temples proceded autonomously much as before but eventually atrophied and when Crowley failed in his bid he moved on to develop his own system. Since the second world war there has been no authenticated
G.D. antecedent temple. It was precisely this vacuum which enabled, following the publication of Regardie's book containing most of the G.D. System (titled The Golden Dawn) devotees (and upstarts!) to recreate G.D. temples for better or worse. And M knows that of which he speaks. BB Denise W. ]
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RE: The Antecedency of The Golden Dawn
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posted by Draconuit
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RE: Crowley: Thelemism; a clearer view.
Only just found your post. Point taken. The Golden Dawn ressurected in kentucky (I think) under odd circumstances. However, we're stuck with a system that refers to the first order as G.D. I shall clarify this. I have to be very careful with the inner orders explanation also, but that's what I am, having read about pigeon sacrifice(???) I feel obliged to give a very brief outline of what we are. I'll amend G.D. to O.T.O. It might be wisest to simply state that the two higher orders are invisible. Thanks for everything.(Putting up with my nature included!)
[Infoburst: Hi Draconuit, It is my job to clarify statements on this forum which may mislead newcomers. Occultists tend to write/talk in a unique way combining hypotheses, opinion and fact which is a form of personal dialectic well understood by other practising occultists who can usually distinguish between what is said and what is meant. However beginners often take absolutely everything at face value as a bald statement of incontrovertible truth. I am here to remind everyone (if any reminder was needed) that the good stuff is nearly always imbeded in a proportion of claptrap but whatever the precentage of claptrap it does not denigrate the good stuff. We are not here to chuck the baby out with the bathwater! ;-) If I may adopt a maternal stance, your contributions are very much of this ilk. Anyone can set up a group and call it by the name Golden Dawn. There are dozens of them that we know of. Providing these groups use the methods and training systems of the G.D. properly then they are very valuable but the moment any of them claim antecedency to Wynn Westcott's G.D. warning bells must ring very loudly and it is the job of genuine esotericists to resist the flights of fancy of many group leaders whose pronouncements may confuse and mislead other genuine seekers. BB. Denise W. ]
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The Antecedency of The Golden Dawn
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posted by Draconuit
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Crowley: Thelemism; a clearer view.
(Edited on Jun-17-2008 08:55 AM by moderator)
Greetings Denise, I find your forum very good, eclectic and liberal. I noticed much muddle on The Crowley Thread, and have written a v. brief explanation of The Golden Dawn, The outermost Thelemic order. I am competent to outline the further stages- and final order, carefully disclosing, veiled truths,which some seekers may wish to study further, in book form. Any thoughts, Denise? Good idea? Bad idea? I shall, of course, do as you decide. Light, Life, Love and Liberty.
[infoburst: Hi Draconuit, you must be careful with absolute statements which may mislead. Anyone following the G.D. system will find your claim that it is a 'thelemic' order paradoxical. Similarly, though Crowley was trained initially in the G.D. system and was therefore influenced by it, in essence the G.D. was/is ante-New Aeon and there is no genuine thelemic order that we know of that claims the G.D. order itself as a part of the thelemic system. BB Denise W.]
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