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RE: One kind of point
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posted by Whiter than you know what
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When I was a kid, our village school was run by the Church of England and had close ties to the local parish church. Age 10, I was admitted to hospital for what turned out to be a two month stay.
The week following my admittance, the parish vicar came to see me (as the school had told him what was happening). As a child I was quite impressed - it took the Methodists - the church our family actually went to - 6 weeks to get in touch.
My spiritual needs, such as they were at the time, were therefore attended to without any input from the hospital or medical professionals.
SO, why do we need this constant missionary effort from some faiths? Are they insecure or what? It must be as the previous comments show to fulfill some need in themselves, as it does little for the sick and dying to be harassed at their most vulnerable time.
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RE: One kind of point
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posted by Arnold F
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See the snide way that 'Nurse' injects doubt into what is a clear cut situation? Christians use this method on a regular basis to undermine the resolve of vulnerable people in all situations, not just those on their death-beds. Praying for people is preying on people. What 'Nurse' does not say is that converting the dying is worth more to her own heavenly credits than it is to the soon to be dead. A converted patient is a confirmation of their own beliefs and a badge to increase their standing in the Christian community. It is not simply sympathy and charity which drives fundamentalists. It is a form of vampirism.
Approaching death makes us all consider the supernatural but as Betty Brown points out, if people want that kind of thing they can ask for it. For decades voluntary chaplains from the main religions have been on standby in all hospitals to be called upon when necessary. To have fundamentalist nurses or doctors exceed their professional remit and force their religion upon a patient in their last hours is to interfere with one's most private and personal death - it is an affront to one's entire being.
The only way this could possibly work in our multi-cultural society is if a succession of priests from the various religions queued up waiting for the patient to pick one out! I'm sure 'Nurse' would be up in arms at the suggestion that Christianity should be treated as no better or worse than all the other faiths!
Note that the unstated premise of 'Nurse's argument is that with Christianity there is hope of life after death whereas without it the patient will presumably end up in hell and torment. Of course, ALL other religions incorporate ideas of salvation so 'Nurses' attempt to stampede the dying into the hands of Christianity 'for their own good' is a fraud> He/she should get on with their professional duties and leave their personal bigotry at home.
Arnold F
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RE: One kind of point
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posted by Betty Brown
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Well, it would seem that if someone wanted that kind of ministry they could request it. If you are a seriously ill non-believer and the medical professionals caring for you start to preach, then you may feel pressured to go along with them whether you want to or not. This would be quite a terrible imposition on the sick and dying and only add to their distress.
What gives someone in a caring profession the right to make that kind of imposition? It is after all going beyond their competency as regulated professionals because....
Most hospitals take the relevant details on admission and have qualified staff who can minister to those who wish it properly and with respect rather than these unqualified freelancers who are simply taking every opportunity to impose their beliefs about the end of life onto the weak and vulnerable.
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One kind of point
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posted by Nurse
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Peace everyone!
I read the writing about Christians who "convert people who are dying". I have seen faces of dying and dyed people. Some are peaceful and some are showing extreme suffer. So I think that if a Christian tells about how to really rest in _peace_, it can cause no harm to someone who is dying. It is a human right to have a "good life" and a "good death".
It raised a thing in my mind, that my friend, who is also a nurse, have experienced and told me:
She was working at a hospital and has met this kind of situations: people have tried to do a suicide by slitting their wrists and someone have called help. After their wrists have been taken care of and their Hb has raised back to normal state - after the patients are physically allright to go home, _no one_ cared about their mental condition - which was the original cause of the whole thing.
So when someone is dying and someone who has experience of something that gives hope, would it be right to deny the possibility from the dying person to know about it? And when someone is dying, he/she surely can do the decision to whether listen to the hope-thing or not to listen. And a nurse is not allowed to pressurise the patients. The patient can decide - even to have all the treatments ended. But the thing that the nurse has to do is to tell about every known treatment that helps the patient. And the duty includes complete human being, which means physical wellness, psychical wellness, social wellness (that's why social workers are working also in hospitals) and spiritual wellness. And that duty comes from the human right to have a "good life" and a "good death".
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RE: Convert and/or die?
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posted by ArnoldF
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Luckily the NHS Trusts aren't standing for this disgusting move to missionise and prey upon terminally ill people at their most vulnerable time. There is no debate. If people are Christians they say so when they fill out their admittance form when they first enter hospital. Ardent Christians will already have their own priest or vicar who will visit them when necessary. Everyone else should be left alone by these bloodthirsty creeps who obviously see forcing themselves upon weakened and dying people as snatching their souls back from Satan at the threshold of death. The mere fact that the British Medical Association is considering the carping cries for more influence from sectarians in their midst indicates how low the medical profession has stooped in recent years in patient care. My advice would be for anyone entering hospital to put their belief down as Jeddi - it's already enshrined as an alternative from statistics in the last Census. ;-)
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Convert and/or die?
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posted by Mr Meek
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Interesting fight back by Christians wanting to regain the right to bother you when you're dying.
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8116497.stm">
<br />Article on doctors wanting to "discuss" spirituality with patients. </a>
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