Welcome to Formula Pro Racing's APEX Alley Discussion Board. Click back button on browser to go back to the FPR Website - WWW.FormulaProRacing.Org -
 |
 |
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by Tony Williams FC#8
|
|
I am all for the pace/safety car during track clean up. Keep us on the track!!
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by ambrose buldo - racer27 - Black Citation FC, #27
|
|
Site was broken... LW has fixed it, conversation can now continue.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by Lindsey
|
|
The only way, I think, EMRA or PDA would go for this is if we had a Pace Car. Drivers can not be "trusted" to "slow down" to a safe speed while workers are on track taking care of an accident. Race cars would be instructed to stay behind the pace car and follow their line to stay away from an incident.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by drscope
|
Just about every SCCA race I have ever participated in has more corner workers per corner then we have on the whole track at any given time. Summit Point has over 10 corner workers per flag station for every SCCA race. I don't think we will ever have that kind of on track support.
As such, I think it is much safer to have a Safety car out in place of a local yellow in certain situations.
If we were to keep racing during a cleanup and had an additional incident, we would be out of safety workers to respond. If we had 10 workers on each corner in place of 1, they could monitor and respond to situations as the racing progressed. Since we don't have that luxury, we need to assure the safety of all participants through other means. This usually ends up being bringing the cars into the pits while a clean up is underway.
However, with our run group, bringing the cars into the pits after we have been running hard and are fully up to temperature exposes us to other unsafe situations. I don't want to see anybody else get burned from having a radiator hose explode, or a race leader not be able to get started due to heat soak. All of the tracks we run on are wide enough that most clean ups could take place while we motor by behind a safety car. The biggest problem I see is making sure nobody gets greedy and tries to gain positions after the incident flag has been thrown.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by tony williams FC#8
|
|
there are RARELY any issues in SCCA with local yellows, even in the Wings n Things run group (with BIG speed differentials). No reason why our club cant do the same...
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by ambrose buldo - racer27 - Black Citation FC, #27
|
A local Yellow is no passing, under control, no speed is specified, so you can be running 80 or 90%+ while workers, equiptment, vech are exposed. M Schumacher proved this last year, where he was on 2tenth off his clean pole lap on a lap where he had to be "Controlled" by one local yellow. Ferrari had to go back to the sector times to prove that MS did in fact slow down (2 tenths) in yellow sector, or he would of been penalized.
With a field as mixed as we are, controlled for a FA car is still faster then full tilt for a FF, so they could trip over each other anyway. In addition, even under control at 80 or 90% thru the yellow zone (Flag Station to Flag Station - and I'm sure you noteced our stations are not close) something could fail on your car (Ie a tie rod end) and you don't have control in an area where people are exposed and you are still traveling at a dangerous rate of speed.
Local yellows, should be still used, however, I perfer a full yellow with pace car in more severe situations that don't warrent a Red, followed by Black ALL. Black All can still be an option, but after the cars have had a lap or so to cool down.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by Len FC11
|
|
also agree with everything said above, no need for us to come off track in most cases, would like even more if we could utilize a local yellow and just have wrecker pull cars out of harms way, and forget towing them in untill after the race.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by tony williams FC#8
|
|
I agree with having the pace/safety car. I have never seen a black flag "all" during a race anywhere else but EMRA/PDA/NASA, except when the run group as a whole is behaving badly (usually Spec Miata) OR when there is a very very bad wreck, which usually results in a RED flag. In fact, I belive it is a MORE dangerous proposition to black flag the session, becuase it takes longer for the crews to get on scene, as opposed to a red flag, where everyone comes to a **controlled** stop. In SCCA schools, they drill you while on hot green laps to look out for the WHITE flag, which tells you there is a wrecker, or abmulance, or other slow moving car on course (and of course look for the yellows where the problem area is). Restarts are a whole other issue. I think at the next race, during our drivers meeting, some of these things should be discussed (especially starts/restarts, because ours (restart) was a mess, in my opinion). As for the pace car while there is a problem on track, there is no reason to not have a pace car, unless it is a super serious condition out there. If we cant control our cars and keep our corner workers safe while an incident is being cleaned up, then we have no business being out there at all, in my opinion. All this stuff should be addressed during the competition licensing process.
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by Abuldo/Racer27
|
Tough call when ambulance has been dispatched. I know of at least one FF that overheated and had to withdraw.
At least one FC had problem restarting (Pockets) and we had to push start. I think someone up towards the front had an issue as well. I normally, shut down when ever I'm not moving, but after a few hot laps, you always intoduce the possibility that she won't start due to heat soaking, fuel vaporization or diminished battery capicity in out total loss systems (Black flag was early in the event - battery should not of been an issue).
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by Lindsey
|
|
That's a good idea , Fran. I will ask the people at PDA, and EMRA, if this could be done for the Formula cars. It makes sense and could prevent a number of problems for our cars
|
|
RE: Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by GregoryJ
|
I agree. Lapping at low speed behind the safety car would've been better for our cars and us. I was under the impression we were lining up to do just that and kept my engine running.
That is, until I saw the ambulance roll out; as soon as that happened I think they didn't want to chance it.
When my car quit on me during the race I parked it behind the cones about 100yrs from the turn. They decided not to flat tow me until the tin tops got their race in. So I had to sit through it.
What I saw was a lot of spins and offline driving. I can see how corner workers didn't want to be near the track with cars on it. They probably assumed we'd be the same way.
|
|
Safety car/Pace car
|
posted by drscope
|
First off, thanks to everyone who helped make the event on July 15 a success, including the weather Gods.
Second...Once again on the North course at Pocono, we had a black flag all situation and everyone had to return to the pits after being up to speed for a few laps. This gave the field only a few turns to cool things down before returning to the pits.
Fortunately this time, it didn't cause any problems that I am aware of, but I do know there were a few nervous folks sitting in the pit road in their race cars trying to decide whether to shut them off or let them run.
As was demonstrated last year, this can be a very dangerous thing for us. These cars do not have on board fans and need to be moving through the air to keep cool. A burst radiator hose caused much pain to one driver last year and a heat soaked starter robbed the overall leader from being able to restart the race.
This also gives us another situation where we may not be able to work the tires enough on the restart to have the grip the field needs to safely get through turn one.
Does anyone else feel that we should have a Safety car or the Pace car come out in these situations, so we don't have to stop? I think it certainly would have been safe enough for us to be slowly circulating behind a pace car while the safety workers clear disabled cars.
We could easily monitor our tempertures and keep our tires up as well and everyone would be able to be there for the restart.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. Thanks for responding.
|
|
