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RE: Stuff
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posted by FOG
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"Doc Hudson, coming to realize Daughters are more expensive than Wifes."
You realize that daughters are occasionally just wives in training?
WB, who fully expects to pay a dear price for this statement when certain redheads read this...
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RE: Stuff
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posted by Doc Hudson's Evil Twin
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It's not for me, I wouldn't own one.
The Woman Child Saw A Couple Of Das Machines @ Pocono Last Weekend and is in "I've Gotta Have One Mode". Cheaper Than Diamonds and she has agreed that if she ever gets Married, i'm off the hook.
PS: The Honda is available for TT Rental/Sale and was built for "i gotta have one"
Doc Hudson, coming to realize Daughters are more expensive than Wifes.
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RE: Stuff
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posted by FOG
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Let me get this striaght - you're selling the gorgeous 510, and the John Martin built ST-5 Honda for a freakin' Mistusbishi? You do realize their corporate motto is "Making mechanics out of drivers since 1990", right?
Therapy, Doc. Serious, intensive therapy is indicated.
WB
Cynic.
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RE: Stuff
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posted by Doc Hudson's Evil Twin
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Great to see idea's and opinions exchanged here.
Some how my lancer request got here also sorry.
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WTB: Lancer GTS
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posted by Doc Hudson
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Looking to buy a 2009 Lancer GTS, besides a Dealer [you wise guys], Anyone know of one for sale ?
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Boxed Fox
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Sorry, typo - that was supposed to be "by the time they got all of the cars OFF the track."
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Boxed Fox
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Sucks to hear that things didn't go to plan. Though I would have to say that starting a session at 5 PM would have been cutting it pretty close. Even if everything went well (no incidents, no tows, no delays) and you ran for 45 mins, you'd basically be looking at around 6:00 PM by the time they got all of the cars back on track. That leaves only an hour to pack their stuff, secure it (if they're staying over) or pack it up (if they aren't), and get through the gates. Even as a driver, an hour sometimes isn't enough time to pack up and get out. I've been chased out of both Pocono and Lime Rock Park on several occasions trying to cram everything back into my TT car.
Not saying that you don't have a valid concern, Justin. I agree with you that maybe it was a bit ambitious to have that extra time, and it does suck that it didn't go to plan. At the same time, I don't think we can really blame the organizers on this one. Lady luck just wasn't with us that day.
~Roger
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by thai.s2000
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as a course worker on Saturday, i was glad the sessions ended early. haha..
Just rubbing it in Justin :P
about the time constraint, it was a saturday event and we were going to be back on sunday. so not everything needed to be out of the facility. some people left their cars at the track. i would have signed up for the practice sessions if i wasn't working the course that day.
~Thai
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by FOG
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Doc & Justin:
I think you both are saying the same thing, just differently and do not realize it. As you all are aware (and as is anybody who has raced at Pocono), the weather there is somewhat capricious. I have been witness to any number of fog delayed fall dates at Pocono and even one or two that were canceled entirely. (Something about station five unable to see station four, and when Callie and I walked towards each other in the fog we managed to walk right past each other without seeing the other, and we were less than 10 feet apart!) Justin's concern is not with the schedule, or the delays to it. His concern is that there was an "apparent" hour of track time at the end of the day when the conditions were wonderful that could have been used.
I wasn't there, but I would not be so certain that EMRA actually had that hour to "use" on track. Pocono is usually very strict about getting EMRA out of the facility by a specified hour so they can lock up. It's why more than one trophy ceremony/beer party has been conducted outside the gates of the track.
It is quite possible that while EMRA had the place until six PM or whatever, at 6:01 Pocono was either going to lock the place down tight or start charging EMRA elventy seven dollars a second for the overage. WAG (Wild Assed Guess) here, but EMRA officials probably looked at the schedule, the amount of time available and made a decision based upon that - that they couldn't get the cars on track for any reasonable amount of time and still get everybody (flaggers, equipment, cars, and the millions of little bits and pieces it takes to pull off an event) out of the property in time.
Sucks, but I am guessing that it's one of those deals that is beyond EMRA's control.
Rob
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Doc Hudson
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Justin, 1st I'd not base an EMRA event on Miss Pocono alone, she is very tempemental. I recall a 2 hour delay purely for fog.
I'd suggest, using the Contact Us section of the website to contact Darrel with your specific question because you "do make a good point" and it should be answered.
Regards,
Doc
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Justin
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Doc,
Not sure if you read my whole post there. Let me sum it up:
I understand and agree with the decision to cancel the first session due to fog delays.
I do not understand the decision to cancel the other session. It was to be at the end of the day, after the enduro. The enduro ended at 5, we had the track til 6. Nobody was on track from 5 to 6, and that was the time that I had paid and got my car ready for. It was bright and sunny, track was dry, you could see for miles.
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Doc Hudson
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It has NOTHING to do with Racers Vs TT'ers. It has to do with "DRIVERS SAFETY" Doubt i spelled saftie/ saftiely/ or any variation correctly.
The schedule was modified for YOUR Safety
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Doc Hudson
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Justin, My Friend.
If you truley under stood, and were a veteran of Pocono, "If Station 1 can't see Station 2 because of fog" thats not EMRA's Fault. If EMRA Cant protect you, "They Will Change The Schedule"
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Justin
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Well this didn't go over so well.
Since this was an advertised event, I drove 2 hours to the track, to be told that the morning session was canceled due to a late start. No problem, I completely understand, the racers take priority and I agree with that decision.
They rescheduled a 45 minute late afternoon session for a lower price, which I thought was a great idea, and I was still happy at this point. So I pay, swap tires and get the car ready, and wait. All day. Only to be told at 4:30 that my session is canceled. Well the Enduro is over at 5:00. We have the track til 6:00. What gives? It was bright and sunny, dry track, would have been some great track time.
It bothered me because I paid for the hotel, wasted my Saturday in a cold and wet garage, had the expense of food for the day/night, etc... for no track time, when in reality there was nearly an hour of track time that EMRA already paid for, that we could have used.
Makes me question coming to a TT. Are we going to cancel a session to try to leave by 4:00? No, I don't think so, as after the timed laps Sunday, someone informed me we could get back on track for some extra laps since we have it til 6! Which just rubbed in my face Saturday's chain of events even more...
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RE: Racers get short changed, again...
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posted by Entropy Racing
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Doug,
Thanks for pointing this important fact out to all the sceptics. Since all the sprint racers are getting hosed, I figured out that I have something to complain about as well.
My rental customer will get 8 laps he is not paying for. THANKS EMRA. Now I have to buy $11 more fuel and amortise engine, trans, brakes and tires over a smaller # of events. I am going to go bankrupt because of these changes EMRA sprung on us at the last minute.
I am cancelling this weekend and never coming to an EMRA event again... No, Really... I am.....................NOT (-;
It will be ok guys. we will race, have a little fun, then go home to our lives.... Just like all the other race weekends we have done for the past umpteen years.
even Hondas and Mustangs can race the extra laps and have fun too.
Thanks to Bob and Darrel and the rest of the revised crew for trying new things and doing what they can to improve EMRA.
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RE: Racers get short changed, again...
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posted by 310slowstang
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Looking at the schedule the sprint race is 8 laps longer than in the past.
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RE: Racers get short changed, again...
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posted by casual observer
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Nice to see the last post. It is positive, realistic and upbeat.
Other posts seem to indicate that there is LESS track time for racers which is patently untrue.
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RE: Racers get short changed, again...
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posted by Doc Hudson
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I've really enjoyed the combined BB/SB Groups. Keeps you on your toes.
i also think The new Saturday schedule is a Great Idea. It's Cheap, offers Track Time for Racers to get seat time, practice. It's Seat Time for TT'rs. I don't see how anyone is getting short changed except the OW'ers who don't turn out in supportive numbers anymore anyway.
Hope You Guys/Gals Have A Great Weekend.
Regards,
Doc
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Racers get short changed, again...
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posted by #62 NEI
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Now I dont have an issue with combining small and big bore if the fields are low, we can deal with the speed diff and it is more fun with more cars, but dont short change us racers yet again. If you want to increase the racer counts than start giving us some incentives and make it better for us not worse.
Why not run a second race like pocono south?
Why not make the race longer, 45 minutes or so?
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Short changing the racers, again...
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posted by #62 NEI
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These added sessions are being used in all the wrong way, for many reasons.
1. Why pay $200 plus on sunday ($50 a session)to TT when a tter can run for $75 on sat ($37 a session)? what gives with the pricing?
2. Many TTers are not use to camping out, only 1 day events, what makes you think there will be a large enough turnout on sat?
3. So TTers are now getting 6 sessions for $275 and us racers are barely getting 3 shortened fast/slow cars added sessions for $200. Last time I checked when a business wants to boost a area they run a sale on that area. Does emra want to end up as a tt only outfit? There are no enduro guys left except a rare few, does emra want us racers to go away as well?
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Charlie Greenhaus
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PS. A formula V and a formula 500 or a continental run on the same track... Why? because there aren't enough wings and things to have 2 groups, so they are combined... where is the difference?
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Charlie Greenhaus
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Cally was the one that informed me that we need to entertain the flaggers. why would they come otherwise?
Combining closed wheel doesn't shortchange anyone as there is just as much time. It does compress time as you said, but maybe Sharon would enjoy a couple of sessions on saturday. As a trialer (and they ARE the ones paying the bills these days) I would think it great to get 2 long sessions in the afternoon and come back the next day for a full day.
Racers aren't showing up in adequate #s to support the day, so if anyone should get shortchanged to try to help the club out it should be the racers.
Open wheel has been enjoying 1/3 of the sprint time for years and not coming close to bringing 1/3 the entries. EMRA still supports them. That is good (I guess) but the bills have to get paid and SOMETHING has to change.
My main point is that you still get 2 sessions and a race, and if you really feel deprived, find a friend and run the enduro.
I can be a harsh critic of EMRA at times,but in my 20 years with the club I have shown my support by entering, and to complain that the same amount of track time in a slightly different schedule format is enough reason for you to scrap the race alltogether I think it would be a good time to buy an entry and see how it goes.
Come race, and if you want an ALL Honda Race, bring 15 friends. Otherwise EMRA will have to make hard choices like they have to stay afloat.
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Supersmile
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Charlie,
I wasn't aware that the purpose of our racing was to entertain the flaggers. <G> (And I started out many moons ago as a nationally licensed F&C guy)
The way the revised schedule now reads, there is only about 20 minutes between sessions on the track for the sprint racers. That makes it very tight if all that is needed is checking air pressures, adding fuel and having a drink of water. If we have a mechanical issue we probably will miss track time. Its not as big an issue for me this weekend as I'm running my wife's (normally reliable) ST5 car instead of my FC, but the open wheel guys are going to be very time pressured.
I don't see the sprint racers gaining anything by purchasing more track time (with restricted passing) AFTER the races are done. So essentially the schedule change has only added more practice time for TT folks if they want it.
I've been racing with EMRA for 13 years or so off and on...while I realize that the economy is problematic this year I don't see that short changing the racers is going to help attract more entries. If Sharon wasn't doing the TT on Sunday, I would head for NHMS for an SCCA race. As it is, I'm not sure we'll bother coming down for Saturday.
(Then again, maybe I have the only small bore car entered. In that case, full disclosure would be helpful.)
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by entropy racing
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My Guess is that many racers prefer to have a reasonable # of cars on track regardless of speed instead of having a 10 car field. certainly the flaggers don't need to watch another 7 car race. it looks bad and is REALLY boring for everyone involved.
As to speed differentials, everyone seems to deal with them well enough in enduros, so what is the big deal. being passed is as important a skill as passing.
Lastly and most importantly, the open track format could attract interest from both racers and TT guys and to be blunt, the Trialists support the club better than the racers, so more opportunity should be given to them when time permits.
EMRA, like other clubs, is struggling with low entries and it is good that they are trying new and different things to attract entrants.
Just an opinion from someone who should just shut up.
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RE: Pocono North Track Time
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posted by Supersmile
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I'm guessing the change is being made because of low race entries, but since the time trialers already get lot's of track time on Sunday, and the sprint racers will be done by the afternoon, why can't we keep the hour being set aside for lapping for separate big bore and small bore races?
Pocono North is a bit tight for the potential speed discrepancies between the fastest and slowest cars.
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Pocono North Track Time
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posted by BobK
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EMRA is adding two (2) half-hour Track Sessions to the Saturday schedule on August 29. We will run those sessions under Time Trial rules, that is, passing on the main straight (super speedway) and the short infield straight before black-flag. Point-bys are encouraged. It will be open to EMRA licensed drivers, Time Trial and Race. The fee will be $75 at the track, no pre-reg for these sessions.
The first session will be just before the 2-hour and the second just after. We will try to get the revised schedule posted on-line, otherwise it will be available on Saturday.
The sprint races will be Closed Wheel (Big-Small Bore Combined)and Open Wheel with Practice, Qualifying and Races before lunch. Enduro Practice after lunch, then the 1st Track Session, the 2-Hour, and finally the 2nd Track Session. Enduro crews may set up their pits any time after the completion of the Open Wheel Race.
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